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Looking Into Reinstating Builder

Musu

Well-Known Member
#1
Suggestion: Bring back the builder job.

Minecraft, a game of endless possibility. A game that sponsors many different types of game play and play style. One of these game play types are Towny servers. Servers with the goal of building great towns for you and your friends to enjoy. Some focus on the economy aspect making industrial style towns. others focus on the aesthetic aspects making beautiful towns. Whatever direction you take your town there is one thing they all have in common, Building.

Using blocks you have gathered through out the world of Minecraft to construct whatever you can imagine, building is a Major facet of the game Minecraft. Even more prevalent in Towny servers where as the goal is to build towns. It takes me by surprise that the builder job that has been a feature of the Jobs plugin was removed.

I may be a bit biased towards having the Job builder due to building being the only type of play style I enjoy. However, I am sure there are many others like me who would love building as their preferred play style. In conclusion, I would like to see the builder job added back to the list of the jobs plugin.

Thank you for your time.
#BuildersOfSticky2020
 

Obsidian__Golem

Grandmaster Contributor
#3
I think one of the issues, is balance, there are many people who use builder job normally, to build. Unfortunately there are also many people who only desire to make tons of money and will grind builder by spamming out blocks and abusing it essentially. For that reason I understood why builder job no longer existed. I agree with Musu in reinstating builder job but if the same issues arise, I think it need to be considered that not all jobs should be judged equally. I can and will make a post about jobs balance later but one of the big issues is that all jobs are compared to at the same level, every new job needs to be equal to the current jobs in means of money making and xp and that is limiting and difficult to balance. If we make a new category like, secondary jobs, jobs that will be equal to each other but not equal to Primary jobs, like the current ones we have we would have a new category to balance them with. This could help for jobs that don't have the same possibility of moneymaking and xp as the current jobs.
 

Musu

Well-Known Member
#4
I can see the point you are making Golem. However, the builder job has a feature that reduces placement time for blocks. For example, lets say it is set to three blocks a second. You will only get job credit (EXP and money) for those three blocks you placed in that second even if you actually placed ten.

That goes to say a person who grinds builder by mass placing blocks vs someone who actually builds will always make more money than the real builder. Adjusting the rates with the spam place in consideration was something that was already done on Azertu. It does screw over the person who actually tries to build but hey, Id rather have a low paying job than no job.
 

Customised

Well-Known Member
#5
Hey Musu! If you want to convince SirK, it would help to add some examples of how this job would work, what blocks it would use and how it would contribute to the economy. :)

At the moment it seems to be more of a story than a suggestion. :p
 

Virus2099

Well-Known Member
#6
Hey Musu! If you want to convince SirK, it would help to add some examples of how this job would work, what blocks it would use and how it would contribute to the economy. :)

At the moment it seems to be more of a story than a suggestion. :p
balanced in a similar way as builder in azertu relative to the other jobs? still pretty bad, not a money maker at all but still there at the very least. He doesn't need to provide examples or anything as the job has been there before, it was simply removed.
 

Musu

Well-Known Member
#7
Hey Musu! If you want to convince SirK, it would help to add some examples of how this job would work, what blocks it would use and how it would contribute to the economy. :)

At the moment it seems to be more of a story than a suggestion. :p
I would fully agree with your suggestion on providing examples for the job if it was a new job. However as Virus has stated, builder is a existing job that comes setup in the jobs plugin and has already been balanced/worked for Azertu. I can not see it taking all that much effort to tweak it a little bit for the new update/server and added back in.
 

SirKillian

Administrator
Staff member
#8
I think one of the issues, is balance, there are many people who use builder job normally, to build. Unfortunately there are also many people who only desire to make tons of money and will grind builder by spamming out blocks and abusing it essentially.
This is the exact reason why the Builder job was removed.

However, the builder job has a feature that reduces placement time for blocks. For example, lets say it is set to three blocks a second. You will only get job credit (EXP and money) for those three blocks you placed in that second even if you actually placed ten.
If you could elaborate I'm willing to look into it. I can't find anything about this setting back in the config file.

However as Virus has stated, builder is a existing job that comes setup in the jobs plugin and has already been balanced/worked for Azertu. I can not see it taking all that much effort to tweak it a little bit for the new update/server and added back in.
The jobs plugin was completely reconfigured from scratch. It uses new equations to determine how much Exp each level requires and how much the payout is. Additionally, Exp gain was made static and no longer scales up each level. If we were to re-add builder job, it would have to be rebalanced entirely.
 

Redux

Well-Known Member
#9
Theoretically, couldn't you make pay similar/slightly higher than what digger is. Both jobs are a very similar in their method to generate income so you can probably base it off of that a tiny bit. This way you can combat the people who spam blocks while also being a job that anyone who is planning to do any sort of big build can pick up.
 

Musu

Well-Known Member
#10
If you could elaborate I'm willing to look into it. I can't find anything about this setting back in the config file.
I am not savvy with config files so I am unable to tell you where to look. However when using the job builder i have experienced many times a message that says something along the lines of 'you placed -insert block- too quickly and you will not receive credit for it-
 

SirKillian

Administrator
Staff member
#11
I am not savvy with config files so I am unable to tell you where to look. However when using the job builder i have experienced many times a message that says something along the lines of 'you placed -insert block- too quickly and you will not receive credit for it-
I think this only happens when the block is in the same location as a previous location you got a payment from.
Example, if you place a stone in the same place over and over again, it will add the cooldown on said location.

However, I'll do a little bit of research.
 

Musu

Well-Known Member
#12
Thank you very much for your reply, consideration, and time; I really appreciate it for Builder is my favorite job out there.
 

SirKillian

Administrator
Staff member
#13
After doing a little bit more research past couple of days. I don't think a proper "cool down" is possible. however, ill keep the thread open incase someone has a good idea in the future.
 

Rhiannon

Administrator
Staff member
#14
Bump - Would love to hear if anyone has any good ideas regarding Builder job ^ :)
 
#16
I think incentivizing players to use up blocks would help items move more in the economy in general. I've seen map-arts that use tons of blocks, which players have probably purchased from stores. As for balance, perhaps you can set a limit on how many blocks can be placed in a ten minute span before blocks stop paying?

So, if I place, say, 4 stacks of blocks in ten minutes, the job stops paying until the end of the ten minutes. I'm not really sure how many blocks, or how much time to wait would be good, but it might stop players from spamming random blocks for no reason, and encourage them to build normally.

I don't really know if Builder is a good job to be made viable in the first place tbh. And maybe this time restriction should only be applied to the main world, to allow players to grind normally in the resource world?

Maybe there could be a max-pay, where if players reach a maximum amount in an hour, like, maybe 20k or less but only in the main world, then it would heavily incentivize players to grind normally in the resource world, and build normally in the main world. That way they could optimize the full pay of the job in resource, and the towny world remains relatively safe. I would only want that restriction to apply to builder though, since miner and digger could pay for large-scale excavation projects in the main world.
 
#17
After thinking about it some more, I think having a builder job would be really tricky to balance in the economy. Since players would want to buy items from shops for profit, the prices of items like stone, logs, glass, etc, would automatically be set and capped by the pay of the jobs that consume them. And if they're too difficult to obtain for what builders are able to pay and still make a profit placing down, players will either just not gather them, or sell them at prices that builders couldn't afford to grind with anyways.

I think at worst, the builder job would cause the prices of normal blocks to be inflated, and at best, the builder job would just suck and not be viable. And if the builder job is added, and isn't viable for grinding as a playstyle, the playerbase would wonder why it exists in the first place.
 
#20
Builder only get pay for placing certain blocks: specifically, the blocks that can only be obtained through crafting. no pay for logs, dirt, stone, cobblestone, leaves, etc. or other blocks that can be created/placed in mass. majority pay from crafting blocks at crafting table instead of placing blocks.
Compliment this job well with the addition of the artisan job! Or nerf them both and combine them, so that artisan job tasks fall under builder.
 

Nate6024

Grandmaster Contributor
#21
This is the exact reason why the Builder job was removed.

Could you possibly disable builder job pay in the resource and nether worlds, making it so that the only place to receive job payout for builder would be in main world.

also at this point I think people just want a builder job to get paid for placing blocks, even if the payout was abysmal, you could make it 1/2 or 1/3rd of what its supposed to be for all other jobs.

Another idea is to disable exp all together for builders, meaning that there would be no way to rankup and payout would be constant for every player.